Hi Folks, Evin here. Blog number 3! I was wondering if this is something I would stick with, and yep, I’m still enjoying it, but struggling to find the appropriate amount of time to add to this as much as I’d like to. Too many comics and TV to watch I guess.
I’ve been very slowly buying up some of the old Marvel silver age Omnibuses (omnibi?), reading where it all began. I was pleasantly surprised to see how interconnected the Marvel Universe was, even back then. Stan Lee already had characters referenced or appear in each other’s books which accumulated in the Avengers (cover date Sep 1963), which teamed up Thor, Hulk, Iron Man, Ant Man and The Wasp from their own comics into a super group.
How exciting it would have been, back in the ‘60’s, to be grabbing these titles off the racks and watching this shared universe unfold. It’s widely recognised that Fantastic Four issue # 1 (cover date Nov 1961) was the beginning of what we know now to be the Marvel Universe, and any characters or adventures referenced from prior to that fateful foursome being bathed in cosmic rays is all retconned many years later (mainly by Roy Thomas). So, if Marvel had the foreknowledge of creating and marketing an interconnected super-hero community, and had a “checklist” of comics to buy entailing all of this exciting new Marvel series and you were keen to “Collect ‘em All!” what would that look like? When would they hit the shelves? Is there a necessary “reading order”? What else was competing for space under the “Marvel” banner?
I did some internet snooping and found a small list of comics (19 titles) sold under the Marvel banner in 1961. But also discovered some interesting history about the birth of Marvel comics. Some I think I had already known, then forgotten, but interesting in a narrative.
Some quick facts:
Marvel began as a comics publishing company known as Timely Comics back in 1939 with their first comic book, “Marvel Comics” issue # 1, cover dated 1939. This featured the first appearance of The Human Torch, an android by the name of Jim Hammond who was later brought back into the ever-growing Marvel Universe in Fantastic Four Annual # 4 (Nov 1966). It was also Namor the Sub-Mariner’s first published appearance and included a story of the Tarzan-like Ka-Zar.
Timely Comics folded in 1950 and morphed into Atlas Comics in November of 1951. Publisher Martin Goodman produced a number of different magazines and paperback novels under different corporate identities and used “Atlas Comics” for his comics line, which grew out a line of ‘genre’ comics as super-heroes had fallen out of fashion.
As far back as 1944 to 1961, some of Goodman’s comics had been labelled “Marvel” or “A Marvel Magazine” but he wouldn’t formally adopt the name for his revamped comic line til June 1961, which is considered the birth of the Marvel Comics entity we still enjoy to this day. Incidentally, this date is referenced within the Marvel Multiverse designation for the prime marvel universe that begun with that first issue of Fantastic Four on November 1961: the 616 continuity. “616” being the 6th month of 1961.
So what is the Marvel Universe reading order for 1961? Fantastic Four # 1. That’s it. That was all that was published (cover dated) in what would become the “Marvel Universe” that year. As FF was bi-monthly early on, issue 2 wouldn’t happen until Jan 1962, which would also be the same month as the first appearance of Hank Pym, soon to become Ant-Man (Tales to Astonish 27, cover dated Jan 1962).
Marvel characters where fresh and new in the 60’s, and more fun to contemplate a ‘reading order’ for these characters than DC Comics who were also growing out their stable of characters. However, they had already a convoluted and jumbled “shared yet not shared” changing representation of their heroes in their stories, in which whatever fit the narrative the host of writers wished. Marvel definitely had the more streamlined larger story being told, most likely largely thanks to Stan Lee doing most of the plot outlines and dialogue himself.
I’m growing out my Reading Orders here on my website and course correcting as I go. You can check it out here and I’ll consider any and all recommendations for change, should you wish to contribute.
Some pre-Fantatsic Four #1 stories that were only later retconned into continuity:
Featuring “Doctor Droom”, Retconned later as Dr Druid into the Marvel Universe
Issue #12 Tales to Astonish, Dec 1960,
Issue #1 Amazing Adventures, Jun 1961
Issue #2 Amazing Adventures, Jul 1961
Issue #3 Amazing Adventures, Aug 1961
Issue #4 Amazing Adventures, Sep 1961
Issue #6 Amazing Adventures, Nov 1961
Some quick thoughts on Dr Droom / Dr Druid continuity. Dr Droom originally appeared in Amazing Adventures #1 in 1961, Dr Druid originally appeared in Weird Wonder Tales #19 in Sep 1976. The Droom story in Amazing Adventures #1 was reprinted in Weird Wonder Tales #19 in every way, except with “Droom” changed out for “Druid”. Thus the retconning of Dr Druid was born. Therefore, I wouldn’t count the Amazing Adventures tales as Dr Druid stories (it clearly says “Droom”), but these altered reprints are. Marvel Fandom website has Amazing Adventures #1 as the first Dr Druid appearance, but I don’t believe it should count.
Similar to Tales to Astonish #12, which was ‘re-told’ in Marvel Universe #4 (Sep, 1998) using the same plot and character representations, but not the same story. Here, it is ‘eluded to’ that Dr Druid was a character in the story. But again, this is the ‘origins’ of this story, not the origins of these characters. These were first told by Roger Stern in Marvel Universe #4 in 1998.
Featuring “It the Living Colossus”
Issue #14 Tales of Suspense, Feb 1961
Issue #20 Tales of Suspense, Aug 1961
Featuring “Spragg”
Issue #68 Journey Into Mystery, May 1961
The monster “Spragg” is referenced in Issue #31 Sensational She-Hulk, Sep 1991, as a sequel story.
Tales of Suspense #14 was reprinted in “Monsters on the Prowl” Issue # 17 in June 1972 and at this stage introduced into the Marvel Universe. So it is Monsters on the Prowl #17 that should be considered the first appearance of It the Living Colossus in the Marvel U.
Featuring “Fin Fang Foom”
Issue #89 Strange Tales, Oct 1961,
Featuring “Reed Richards”, “Skrulls”
Issue #7 Amazing Adult Fantasy, Dec 1961 Zankor was retconned to be a Skrull and the scientist retconned to be Reed Richards
As depicted in the comic, the scientist here is clearly not a young anyone, let alone a young Reed Richards. The story in the comic may have been retold, but it isn’t the same. The story in “Marvel: The Lost Generation” I believe should be considered a flashback, not a retcon.
This is all my rationale, my view on these stories, If you have a differing opinion, thats ok as well. You do you!
Marvel Fandom: https://marvel.fandom.com/wiki/Marvel_Comics_1961
Wiki – 1961 in Comics: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1961_in_comics
Marvel Aug 1961 comics: https://www.marvel.com/articles/comics/every-comic-marvel-august-1961-omnibus
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marvel_Comics#Marvel_Comics
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Comics_(1950s)#Pre-superhero_Marvel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timely_Comics
Comic News
Dick Tracy
I had an ambiguous awareness of Dick Tracy as a child, not certain of his story or motives, his supporting cast or enemies, but had a familiarity of the Dick Tracy look and his tv watch (first introduced in 1964 and still waaaaay ahead of his time!). I bought a Dick Tracy tie-in comic for the 1990 film release and was underwhelmed, also with the movie, but there was enough in there for intrigue. The mix of ‘noir’ and hard nosed detectives, working rough streets, and cast of criminals akin to Batman Villains, I really want to like it.
So I’m excited to see announced a return to comics via Mad Cave Studios in 2024, written by Alex Segura and Michael Moreci, drawn by Geraldo Borges. Writer Segura used the term “noir” to describe the book’s tone so it looks like we can expect to read adventures leaning more grounded, similar in spirit of the original Dick Tracy, one inspired by real-life detective Eliot Ness.
“This has been a long time coming, and we are all so excited to bring our grounded, noir take on the Dick Tracy mythos to life at Mad Cave,” Segura said in a statement. “Michael and I have loved Dick Tracy, his stellar rogues gallery, and unforgettable supporting cast since we first became aware of the character as kids.” I’ll have this one on my pull list for next year!
Fables enters the public domain
It’s quite a bold and unprecedented move to release your creator-owned property into the wilds of the Public Domain, but that’s exactly what “Fables” creator Bill Willingham has done.
Based on his comments, the tipping point would seem to have come from a difference of opinion of who owned the rights to Fables:
“Shortly after creating Fables, I entered into a publishing agreement with DC Comics. In that agreement, while I continued to own the property, DC would have exclusive rights to publish Fables comics, and then, later, that agreement was expanded to give DC exclusive rights to exploit the property in other ways, including movies and TV.
“DC paid me a fair price for these rights (fair, at the time), and as long as they behaved ethically and above-board and conducted themselves as if this were a partnership, all was more or less well. But DC doesn’t seem to be capable of acting fairly and above-board. In fact, they treated this agreement (as I suppose I should have known they would) as if they were the boss and I their servant. In time, that got worse, as they later reinterpreted our contracts to assume they owned Fables outright.”
Bill Willingham has come to the conclusion that DC are no longer reasonable to deal with and can’t afford to push against them in the courts so rather than continue to fight against DC and the very real possibility of losing his creator-owned rights, he’s decided to rather than fight to keep the rights to just himself, he’ll open it up to everyone.
So as of September 15, “the comic book property called Fables, including all related Fables spin-offs and characters, is now in the public domain. What was once wholly owned by Bill Willingham is now owned by everyone, for all time” Willingham has proclaimed.
So there it is! Jump at it folks. Start that Fables-centric story, cartoon, 3 X 4 hour long films that you’ve been sitting on and let it loose and care free upon the world.
BUT WAIT! DC aren’t taking this lying down. What kind of precedent could be made if creators don’t just roll over and give them what they want? What if creators choose the self-destruct option and say ‘Sure, you can have it, but so can everyone else!’
DC released a statement officially declaring that Fables is “owned by DC and protected under the copyright laws of the United States and throughout the world in accordance with applicable law and are not in the public domain. DC reserves all rights and will take such action as DC deems necessary or appropriate to protect its intellectual property rights.”
Bill Willingham clapped back: “It’s a decision that still stands, and will stand, even in the face of cranky denials from those DC folks, who now openly admit what I’ve known all along: Even with a creator-owned contract, they believe they are the true owners of Fables. They always have.” As much as Bill wanted to avoid the courts, it looks like it’s heading there anyway.
RIP Keith Giffen
The comics industry has lost another Comics Giant. Keith Giffen, writer and artist passed away October 9 after a stroke at the age of 70. Co-Creator of enduring characters such as Rocket Raccoon, Lobo, Justice League International and Justice League Europe, the Jamie Reyes Blue Beetle and Ambush Bug. His JLI work I think has left the biggest imprint on DC and the industry. How he dragged these super-heroes down to our level and humanised them in a fresh, relatable and hilarious way is a legacy that still endures today. Its this work I immediately think of when I think of Keith Giffen, and every time I do think of his JL run I smile.
Gerry Conway health issues
Some good news in a time when we seem to lose so many legendary creators and writers (Keith Giffen most definitely included) it’s most welcome news to read that fames long time writer for both Marvel and DC Gerry Conway has fought a battle against pancreatic cancer and won!
Gerry Conway, arguably most popularly known for his runs on the Amazing Spider-Man, Justice League of America and Superman, co-creator of characters such as Man-Thing, Firestorm, Punisher, Killer Croc and Jason Todd, has been a prolific writer for Marvel and DC since 1969 and the young age of 16.
It sounded like a tough time for Gerry but it’s just very heartening to hear that after his troubles he’s still with us, and sounds like will continue to be for some time:
“The good news is, praise Cthulhu, as of January, I’m now cancer free. The bad news is, praise Cthulhu, there were complications.”
Praise Cthulhu indeed!
So… What’s Goin’ on?
Yarraville Comic & Toy Fair
I hit up the Yarraville Comic & Toy Fair which is getting bigger and better each time. Plenty of sellers with a heap of different stock. It looks like its running 4 times a year, so plenty of opportunity to blow your pay packet on whatever collectable you gravitate to.
They’re coming thick and fast, with another one on Melbourne Cup Day, Tuesday 7th of November, 10:00am.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/135634308494645/
Melbourne Comic & Toy Fair
Coming Sunday October 29 in Darebin, this new fair on the block has been building for a while now and I’m keen to dive in and see how it goes. Very slick and professionally represented, this promises to have enough going on in here to kill a good portion of your day scanning the tables and flicking through long boxes.
https://www.facebook.com/events/943415613479829?acontext=%7B%22event_action_history%22%3A[]%7D
Movies n TV
Loki Season 2 has hit our screens (Episode 2 just dropped last Friday) and its as god as I hoped. Tom Hiddleston is a fantastic actor and no one co9uld do better in the role of Loki than him. There’s also great on screen chemistry between him and Owen Wilson that makes watching the two of then work together a joy.
The Marvels hits movie screens 9th of November and it looks great. Lots of cosmic fun and promising deeper ties to the Captain Marvel comic book mythology.
December 20 we get the Aquaman sequel, Aquaman and the Lost Kingdom and a return of one of my favorite comic book villains, Black Manta,brilliant portrayed by Yahya Abdul-Mateen II, perhaps the best part of the first Aquaman film.
Spotlight On…
Lets learn about a bit of comic book history: Comic professional profile, moment in history, landmark character or issue, etc.
So I touched on the first ever Super-Hero in my first blog, but what about the first alien in a comic? The concept of beings from other planets has been a relatively new concept in literature, the earliest idea of travelling to the moon was a novel by Johannes Kepler in 1634. Sci-fi broadened considerably in the 1800’s including literary giants such as Mary Shelley, Jules Verne , H.G. Wells, Mark Twain and Sir Arthur Conan Doyle. Early examples of science fiction with alien encounters include H.G. Wells The War of the Worlds and Edgar Rice Borroughs “Barsoom” series which included the hero John Carter. But what of comics? When did we see examples of E.T.s popping up in comic stories? Superman may be the most popular alien, but he wasn’t the first.
Staff cartoonist A.D. Condo from the Chicago Day Book newspaper created Mr. Skygack, the Martian sent to Earth to study us humans. His first appearance came in 1907 either short multi-panel stories or in single panels. My Skygack was the son of a professor of Astronomy in Mars University. A harmless and curious gentle stranger, Mr Skygack peeksand snoops his way through our every day lives documenting his findings in a notebook. he was crated as a means to indirectly comment on the social standards of the day. His final story came in 1917 when the paper came to a non-profitable end.
More dramatic science fiction came much later, in the form of Buck Rogers on January 7, 1929 appearing in newspapers across America. Here, the flood gates opened and we were quickly introduced to Flash Gordon and Dan Dare, amongst others. It collimated in the arrival of Superman, probably the most famous alien and shortly after in Jan 1940 Planet Comics was born, beginning with the feature story: “The One-Eyed Monster Men from Mars”. From then on, life from distant planets were coming at us thick and fast.
https://gizmodo.com/was-mr-skygack-the-first-alien-character-in-comics-453576089
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Skygack,_from_Mars
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_fiction_comics
Read My Mind
Comics I’ve read recently, what I’ve bought, what I’m currently reading (comics and books) and what I’m looking forward to
Star Wars: Dark Force Rising
I recently re-read “Star Wars: Dark Force Rising”, Chapter 2 of the Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn. With Grand Admiral Thrawn appearing in Live Action in the current Ashoka TV series, this trilogy of books are as relevant now as they’ve ever been and enjoying it’s most popularity since their debut. Review coming.
Star Trek 1
I’m also reading an early Star Trek book, 7 original episodes crunched down and retold in short story form from 1967. Only 134 pages long, but not a quick read, if that is a strong indicator for you regarding it’s readability. You can read my review here.
Uncanny X-Men 201 to 209, New Mutants 35 to 45, X-Factor 1 to 8
My read-a-long with Jay and Miles X-plain the X-Men podcast is ongoing and getting very interesting. When I first picked up the X-Men and started reaching backward into the back issues, I knew that Phoenix (Rachel Summers) had joined Excalibur along with Shadowcat and Nightcrawler, Cyclops’s wife Madelyne Pryor was with the X-Men and Cyclops and Marvel Girl were raising little Christopher Nathan Summers. But I have no idea how this all comes to pass. I’ve just read the start of X-Factor and closing in on the Mutant Massacre storyline, which I’ll be reading for the first time. At my current place, Phoenix, Shadowcat and Nightcrawler are all running with the X-Men, Madelyne is abandoned by Cyclops, left alone with the child in Alaska and Cyclops is more than usually angsty with X-Factor. Knowing what will happening is making the read probably more tense than going in not knowing.
Dawn of DC: Wonder Woman
I have a stack of DC back log comics waiting to be read, but Tom Kings “Wonder Woman” jumped ahead of the pile. As always, Tom King has a fascinating way of elegantly tying in social parallels into his stories, and this is no different. Ignorance and fear are strife across America when an Amazon goes nuts on a bunch of arseholes in a bar and all Amazons are on the extradition list, leaving Wonder Woman on the run. This will be a great Wonder Woman run.
Enter… The Watcher!!
Movies and TV I’ve watched, currently watching and looking forward to. Any comic related documentaries I think worth a look.
Blue Beetle
I enjoyed this way more than I thought I would. It had a lot of heart and a lot of charm. It still felt like generic comic book movie fare, but it certainly had a style of its own. It surprised me by leaning much heavier into the Blue Beetle mythology than I thought it would. Ted Kord was the Blue Beetle superhero of the 80’s who has gone missing and with this tenuous link to that era, the film does seem to want to play in that aesthetic, from the jagged Blue Beetle font in the title card, to the neon blue and pink littered throughout the film to the Vangelis-style music score. And Ted Kords Bug mobile makes a very welcome appearance, with a much more entertaining on-screen action sequence than we got from the Bat-Crab in the Justice League film. Very glad to have seen this one.
Schitt’s Creek
This is just a fun and funny feel good show that is carried on the shoulders of its stellar cast. Each performance is brilliantly realised to the point where I couldn’t imagine any other actors being able to represent these characters to anywhere near the portrayal this ensemble manages. The premise itself is pretty straight forward, rich people turned poor must survive in a rural town, but the acting here just keeps on delivering time after time. They all deserve the many awards that was bestowed on them.
The Captains
The horror… the horror… This “documentary” is for Star Trek Fans only (clearly) and only for those fans who doesn’t mind seeing William Shatner humiliate himself. Written and directed by Shatner, I am mind blown by the fact that he would have re-watched this and thought, ‘yep, love it. Distribute ahoy!’ The times he believes himself to be funny, he is not funny. Often, he comes across as cruel. The times he believes himself intelligent, he is not intelligent. He often comes across as crass and obnoxious. The times he believes himself to be insightful or whimsy, he is not these things. He is self-indulgent and rude. It is the belly of William Shatners ego split open and spilled out in all its messy, bloody pulp for all to see. The participation of the other ‘Captains’ comes across as respectful of the origins of the franchise and acknowledgement that the fandom of Captain Kirk opened up the opportunities afforded these other talented actors. I’m certain all of these other actors after their one-on-one with Shatner called their agents straight afterwards and told them to never allow that to happen again. The only real, genuine positive I got from watching this is a re-enforced position to separate the character of Kirk from the actor. I can enjoy Captain Kirk to the fullest and still have a comfortable disdain and an accepted apathy for the actor William Shatner. It also made me love the other actors even more. This isn’t even for Star Trek fans. It’s for anyone with a fascination of the lore of science fiction in popular culture. I’m sure most Star Trek fans would hate to see the actor of their favourite Starship Captain reveal himself to be such a fool.
Comic Book Showcase
Unite for General Strike Comic Anthology
One of my proudest purchases was the “Australia Burns” Comic anthology that supported victims of the 2019 / 2020 Bushfires. In support of the struggling writers from the WGA writers strike, a fresh anthology is being released on Kickstarter, with contributions going to the Entertainment Community Fund which supporters everyone that was impacted by the WGA / SGA strikes, including crews that couldn’t work during the strikes. Even with the strikes over, the struggle is still real for many out of work for these past many months.
There’s a digital version for around $16 (AUS) or a physical copy for around $35 (AUS).
Stories included are written by (but not only) WGA Members / Comic Writers: Grant Morrison (Happy!, All-Star Superman), Brian Michael Bendis (creator of Miles Morales and Jessica Jones) and Matteo Pizzolo (Calexit, Godkiller).
We have until Saturday, October 21 2023, 2:00pm until the project closes. Definitely a worthwhile cause.
Comics Presents…
Tales of interest from the corners of the internet.
I stumbled across a couple of interesting things on Twitter these past weeks (Yes, I’ll never not call it Twitter). A terrific little 15 minute doco that looks to be attached to The Flash Blu-Ray release, “Supergirl – The Last Daughter of Krypton”. Supergirl was my favorite thing about The Flash movie and this is a great quick recap of the character through the different writers and actors to have written and played her.
@HeroesUnbound on Twitter (No, I won’t let it go) had a great thread of all the failed DC movies of the past 20 odd years. Depressing, fascinating and forehead-slapping stuff.
Take it away, @HeroesUnbound:
DC is notorious for cancelling their movies… So here’s an insane thread of EVERY cancelled DC movie from the past 20 years. This is the BIG one, strap in
In 2002, DC got JJ Abrams to write a Superman movie called “Superman Flyby”. Both Henry Cavill and Brandon Routh auditioned. Real costumes were made. The film was cancelled.
Instead, DC got Akiva Goldsman to write a Batman and Superman movie in 2003. It was also cancelled. However, a logo for the film made its way into “I Am Legend”, because Goldsman was a writer on that film as well.
After two failed attempts, DC made their first movie of the 2000s a Catwoman movie. This was their first movie since 1995’s Batman and Robin…
In 2005, DC rebooted Batman with Nolan’s gritty take, which turned out to be a massive success, setting the stage for a new era (which would face equally as tumultuous cancellations)
They also reboted Kal in 2006, and Superman Returns got great reviews. A sequel was greenlit almost right away! But, it got left behind and cancelled a in favour of…
A Justice League movie!! DC hired George Miller as the director, and got as far as casting EVERY SINGLE role, and designing all the costumes and sets. All the actors flew to Australia to start filming and put on their costumes. The entire thing got scrapped due to the 2008 Writers Strike and DC getting cold feed. This is by far the most baffling movie on the list because it was so ambitious and so close to being made.
In 2009, Leonardo DiCaprio pithched an Aquaman movie to WB who was accepting pithces on the character. DiCaprio would executive produce, but the film never made it further.
Next was a planned Shazam film in 2006/7. The script by John August was imagined as 1988’s “Big” but with super powers. Director was Peter Segal. It never got made (in that form), but it did manage to cast The Rock as Shazam… Until… The Rock talked to fans at SDCC, and decided he would prefer to play Black Adam instead. And so, his 15 year journey towards Black Adam began, even though at this point i he was still as the villain in a Shazam movie, not a separate movie.
DC then had two attempts with The Flash. First in 2005 with David Goyer writing a Wally West movie. Then in 2007 with Guggenheim and Berlainti writing a Barry Allen movie. The latter would have been tied to 2011’s Green Lantern. Neither got made.
In 2008 DC tried to make a movie called Green Arrow: Escape from Super Max, with a script by David Goyer and Justin Marks. Oliver Queen would escape a prison while fighting rogues including Icicle. Joker and Lex Luthor would cameo. It got dropped by 2010.
They also tried doing a Starman movie but there isn’t much about this.
In 2011 they released Green Lantern to critical and fan backlash. Any attempt to continue the Green Lantern franchise was halted, and this post-credit scene was totally hanging.
The only continued success came in the form of Chris Nolan’s Batman trilogy which released it’s sequels in 2008/2012 and then bowed out. An idea to introduce Superman was floated, but Nolan and DC decided to keep them separate when Henry Cavill was cast in 2011.
DC decided to reboot Superman (again!) this time with Zack Snyder’s 2013 film Man of Steel. At this point, Kevin Tsujihara had made decided that this film would launch a shared universe, but little was known about what that universe would look like…
During this time Zack Snyder was pestered with questions about a JLA movie which he remained tight-lipped about! He also postured about the DC/MCU rivalry broadly pre-emtped the mistakes that WB would make as a studio in the years to follow. But by the very next month in undoubtedly one of the coolest SDCC moments of all time, Snyder announces that the next DC movie is Batman V Superman. The moment the Superman symbol reveals the Batman symbol behind is still just so spine-tinglingly exciting.
Following this, by the end of 2013, Ben Affleck is announced as Batman, and Gal Gadot as Wonder Woman. These are followed in 2014 by cast announcements for the rest of the Justice League, who are all said to be appearing in BvS. Along with Ezra’s casting, a Flash movie is locked in for 2018, with no script or director at that point. Then later in 2014, WB CEO Kevin Tsujihara officialy announced their 10-movie slate. Half of these movies would either be cancelled, delayed, or so seriously messed-with that a directors cut of them would be released much later… Of this slate, only Batman V Superman, Suicide Squad, Wonder Woman, and Aquaman would arrive on time AND in form.
After those films are released, DC greenlit Suicide Squad 2 (no director attached) , Gotham City Sirens (with David Ayer directing), and discussed a Deadshot movie. Thus begins DC’s long-held tradition of madly greenlighting movies on a whim and then forgetting about them.
Later that year, The Flash gets pushed from 2018 to at least 2019 when it loses it’s director Rick Famuyiwa. By 2017, Green Lantern Corps gets writers in David Goyer and Justin Rhodes, and is set to feature both Hal Jordan and John Stewart. Later in 2017, Zachary Levi gets cast as Shazam, and The Rock negotiate with New Line to split Black Adam into it’s own separate film…
Whedon then takes over Justice League after a mix of personal tragedy and awful studio-interference takes Snyder way. When the film arrives in 2017, it’s in such a terrible state that DC starts cancelling films and a hashtag is born… #ReleaseTheSnyderCut
After this, the Justice League Dark movie that had been developing under Guillermo del Toro since 2013 was passed onto Doug Liman in 2017, before falling to the wayside and never moving forward. A Booster Gold movie is announced, which at one point was also a Blue Beetle team up, with Greg Berlanti on board. A Lobo movie that would be DC’s first R-rated film is also flagged. Then, DC announces a Batgirl movie with Whedon in 2017, who leaves and is replaced by Bilall Fallah and AdilEl Arbi by 2021.
Ben Affleck then leaves the director-post of his Batman movie in 2017, handing over to Matt Reeves. At this point, he’s still attatched to play Batman in the film. A seperate Deathstroke movie is announced the same year. They announce a Nightwing movie in 2017 with Lego Batman director Chris McKay, and get Gavin O’Connor on to direct Suicide Squad 2. A Lobo movie is also announced in 2017.
Then DC announce a Harley v Joker movie (that goes nowhere), and a spinoff Joker origin that is their first film to explicitly be intended as separate from the DCEU that would be executive produced by Martin Scorsese. I have to address Scorsese because… it’s amazing. Basically, Joker was heavily inspired by Taxi Driver and The King of Comedy, so they asked him to exec produce it. He eventually left, but for 4 years he stayed close, read the script, and called the story “remarkable”.
By December of 2017, DC took to Brazil Comic Con to reveal their updated slate. They showcased all of the movies I already mentioned, but chose not to include others. Many of these never got made. The slate as of Dec 2017 is shown below.
Then in 2018, DC announced EVEN MORE movies. Including Blue Beetle and a New Gods movie helmed by Ava DuVernay. The latter never got made. Aquaman then releases in 2018, and to much surprise, rocketed to being DC’s highest grossing movie of ALL TIME. Higher than even any Batman movie. DC predictably announced a sequel right away. Then, DC continues their streak announcing an insane amount of sequels and spin-offs. Notably, an Aquaman horror movie called The Trench, and a Zatanna movie.
Francis and Daley join to direct The Flash in 2019. Write an entire new script. Then leave, and the film is delayed again to 2021. Steven Spielberg comes on to a Blackhawk movie (that never got an update).
Joker is released in 2019. DC’s first non-DCEU movie since the start of the DCEU. It was a huge hit and somewhat lightbulb moment for DC to delve into Elseworlds more… Joker 2 is greenlit in 2019. By 2019 Affleck now leaves The Batman role entirely, and DC casts Robert Pattinson in his place. This marks the third reboot for Batman within 20 years. In this time Birds of Prey and WW84 also release, with the latter sent to streaming same-day due to COVID. Wonder Wonder 3 is greenlit with Patty Jenkins directing, and her and Geoff Johns writing a script together.
In 2019, The Flash finally finds it’s director in Andy Muschietti, and writer in Christina Hodson in 2021. By 2020 Michael Keaton joins as Batman, and in 2021, Michael Shannon signs on as Zod, and Sascha Calle is cast as Supergirl. A Val-Zod Superman movie was then hinted at by 2021 with Michael B Jordan cast, and JJ Abrams producing. Jordan also started producing a Static Shock movie. Both of these are the only loose ends on this list that are (kinda) still in development?
Meanwhile, the 3-year campaign to #ReleaseTheSnyderCut is won, and ZSJL arrives on HBO Max in 2021. Initially pitched as a 4-part series, it’s the first DCEU entry not sent to theatres at all, and begins a long-running confusion about which JL movie is canon.
James Gunn leaves Marvel, and is offered a Superman movie at DC! Instead he chooses The Suicide Squad, and is told he can keep or remove ANYTHING he wants from the DCEU canon. This shows just how deeply a lack of cohesion ran through DC Films’ creative decisions at the time. This is followed by a Peacemaker series, which brought the JL back onto screens for the first time since 2017’s JL — obviously only two actors appeared though. Ezra Miller’s scene was actually filmed by the Marvel GOTG Vol 3 crew.
Batgirl finishes filming in 2021, which featured Michael Keaton as Batman. DC scraps the entire thing as a tax-writeoff — despite it being totally finished. This is a good time to say #ReleaseBatgirl. The Batman and Black Adam open in 2022 to vastly different reactions. While a Superman cameo causes misled hope as Cavill had not signed a contract to return yet. Meanwhile The Batman Part 2 joins Joker 2 as the only greenlit DC movies to survive the incoming reshuffle…
In a bid to take the crown for shortest-lived DC projects of all time, a Black Adam sequel and Hawkman spinoff are announced in the trades, only to be dropped 13 days later. Then, DC quietely cancels a bunch of movies including Wonder Woman 3, and a Keaton Batman Beyond movie that would have featured Michelle Pfeiffer’s Catwoman.
This was all in anticipation of hiring a brand new head for DC, that would become a seperate entity under WBD. This came in the form of James Gunn and Peter Safran. The team arrive and face immense online debate about where DC films are headed. In January 2023, such confusion is (almost) quelled, when Gunn announces a brand new slate, with a recast Superman, and the option to keep some things from the old universe, including some actors the same. Aquaman 2 and Joker 2 are still slated, in addition to the projects announced in Gunn’s Chapter 1 slate, and that (exhausted sigh) is the end of our thread!!
Update: If I missed anything please reply with it! Only live-action movies after 2000. No animation, tv, or 90s stuff. So far, I missed: 2002 Batman Year One 2002 Batman Beyond 2005 Teen Titans 2005 Wonder Woman 2017 Red Son 2018 Plastic Man 2019 Teen Titans 2019 Supergirl.
Thanks @HeroesUnbound! Excellent research. More than earned a ‘follow’ from me!
Fanfare Featuring…
I reviewed a thing or two.
The New Teen Titans (Vol 2) Issues #1 to #5, the prestige format of the New Titans adventures from 1984!
The first Star Trek Novelisation. Boldly going where TV was first to go. My review of 7 short stories published in 1967, based on the hit TV series.